Another "speared" Xantia strut top...Check YOURS!

All the sticky threads from the Citroen and Activa forums have been relocated here at least on a temporary basis.

Moderators: RichardW, myglaren

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 27 Jun 2006, 22:58

Forgot to mention - the rubberised covering looked presentable but peeled away leaving this mess. Mind this was AFTER it'd all gone north into the bonnet anyway...

Andrew
0x

D.Slatford
Posts: 129
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 07:06
Location: Wakefield, United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by D.Slatford » 27 Jun 2006, 23:07

Whoa. NOW I'm scared!

I dread to imagine the damage caused if this happens at speed. Such a thin collar of metal holding the front up, surely a potential deathtrap. :shock:

Definately calling in my local(ish) cit independant tomorrow morning. I only hope he can do it before Saturday, I have a 200 mile trip due!
0x

davethewheel
Posts: 365
Joined: 04 Aug 2002, 04:01
Location:
My Cars:

Post by davethewheel » 27 Jun 2006, 23:23

people definatly need to check them from underneath as mine look fine from above but underneath there is signs that it's going to go, just passed it's m.o.t today as well so don't expect an examiner to spot if it's about to fail.
the offside on mine looks far worse than the nearside gaitor is at halfmast ect so i've ordered a new one from the dealers @ £109.00.....ouch, i think i'll go ahead and order the other one though just to be sure as it can't be far behind the other one, is there some kind of fastener that holds the gaitor on or does it just push over the lip on the rubber :D
0x

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 27 Jun 2006, 23:25

When you think about it, it 'calms' the excitement of driving in a 'spirited' manner in a V6 or Activa...

I've caught 5 [3 Xantias & 2 Xm's] now before they've failed and seen two actually fail [one an Xm and another the VSX Xantia].

The Xm 'popped' as I was pulling away from the kerb outside the house at low speed; the Xantia damaged a load of it's nearside panelwork as well as the bonnet 'landing' after the offside strut went when it's wheel slightly struck a glancing blow against a highish kerb...

I personally feel this IS MOST DEFINITELY a serious issue on these cars and IT WILL cause potential DANGER unless the strut tops are thoroughly checked regularly.

Andrew
0x

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 27 Jun 2006, 23:30

What's crap about all this state of affairs is the corner-cutting cost scrimping by Citroen for the sake of some decent weather protection or thicker metal. There's a swedish kit for reinforcing Xm strut tops BUT this will restrict the rubber movement of the strut top.

It REALLY does move a lot on the crown in a poor man's ball joint fashion - get someone to steer the car from lock to lock when the bonnet's open and see the tilt of the strut top in relation to the bodywork... :shock: :shock:

Andrew
0x

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 28 Jun 2006, 21:01

D.Slatford wrote:Oh, is this problem common only to Xantias? Was there any similar mass failure on the older BXs, XMs etc?


Image
Image

On this Xm, what's interesting on revisiting the pictures is the fact that the rubber is torn away without the metal appearing to be noticeably rusty!

I've found the Scandinavian website:

http://w1.431.telia.com/~u43116231/

Thing is, you fit these onto already good strut tops - NOT knackered ones...

Andrew
0x

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7177
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 83

Post by Mandrake » 28 Jun 2006, 22:24

andmcit wrote:On this Xm, what's interesting on revisiting the pictures is the fact that the rubber is torn away without the metal appearing to be noticeably rusty!

Yep, thats quite normal in many countries including NZ.

There are TWO modes of failure for the strut tops - metal plate rusting away, and the rubber block cracking, perishing, and then shearing away.

Some countries - notably the UK, seem to trigger the rusty plate mode of failure well before the rubber gets time to perish.

I guess the cold temperatures :lol: minimize rubber perishing, and salted roads cause the plate to rust out first.

In other countries, including NZ, Australia (?) and more tropical regions like Malasyia, the metal plates seem to be just fine (I havn't seen a rusty one yet) but the rubber block perishes at an accelerated rate, perhaps due to higher temperatures and humidity. (Although the later seems to discount Australia which is generally less humid than NZ ;) )

One of the problems with the way the bracket plates and the rubber block are designed is that the upper and lower metal supports DONT overlap, which means that the rubber block carrying the weight of the car is subjected to SHEAR stress all its life instead of COMPRESSION stress, which it would have if the plates overlapped a large amount.

BAD idea. If they overlapped not only would the stresses on the rubber be mostly compression instead of shear, but if the rubber did fail, (which it probably wouldn't, under compression) it would prevent it from spearing the bonnet.

Not only that but the rubber blocks have deliberately designed weak points to allow them to pivot like balljoints (try turning the steering from lock to lock and watch the strut tops tilt 10-20 degrees!!) so it's little wonder they fail.

I'm apauled that mine only lasted 8 years before they were showing signs of imminent failure. Possibly the single worst piece of design that Citroen has ever done...

Regards,
Simon
0x
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 28 Jun 2006, 22:41

Round my way, there's never any grit but PLENTY of rain! South Wales [the UK one!! :wink:] INVENTED rain - in fact it's one of Wales' main exports!

This is great for damp conditions that'll allow the metalwork to do it's thing with rust degradation. Thing is the rubber actually gave up on the Xm pictured! Can't say it's EVER been that humid/hot to ruin the rubber...

Yes, a totally rubbish design by Mr Citroën - F - could do better - BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD.

Andrew
0x

User avatar
demag
Donor 2016
Posts: 1380
Joined: 18 Oct 2004, 05:03
Location: Black Country, aye it ar kid.
My Cars: "H" Citroen Bx Tgs Automatic.
2004 Citroen C5 Exclusive Estate 2.2 hdi Automatic.
x 72

Post by demag » 28 Jun 2006, 23:52

Is this mileage related, age related, or both?

In other words is a low mileage old car likely to suffer as well?

I see most XM's and Xantia's for sale these days seem to have mileage well into the hundred thou's.
0x
Dave

'04 C5 auto estate 2.2 hdi.
Bx 1.6 TGS Auto 50k A rare beast by all accounts. A bit tired but getting better by the day.
'96 XM 2.5TD VSX.......Sadly sold. What an idiot! I should have held on to that.

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7177
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
Location: North Lanarkshire, UK
My Cars:
x 83

Post by Mandrake » 29 Jun 2006, 00:26

demag wrote:Is this mileage related, age related, or both?

In other words is a low mileage old car likely to suffer as well?

I see most XM's and Xantia's for sale these days seem to have mileage well into the hundred thou's.


Mine had done only 140,000Km (87,500 Miles) at the time the strut tops were replaced when I bought it... and 8 years old, so hardly high mileage.... its got to be environmental factors and/or manufacturing problems as the car was otherwise in very tidy and good condition. (Almost spotless in fact)

Regards,
Simon
0x
Simon

1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver

1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive

User avatar
AndersDK
Posts: 6060
Joined: 21 Feb 2003, 05:56
Location: Denmark
My Cars:
x 1

Post by AndersDK » 29 Jun 2006, 00:28

Hard to give an exact answer on this - as so many factors influences on this problem.
No doubt a low mileage car would suffer this problem as well. The problem is more related to corrosion/detoriation from weather & road environment - than it is on the mileage the car has covered over time.
On the other hand - the more mileage the more mist from the road it will have suffered. Time is an important factor - as the problem starts from day one on the roads - or in the driveway.

But thats certainly no different from other cars not proteceted against rust & environment. The difference is the dramatic consequences on XM & Xantia - as you can see from above you get no warning :roll:
0x
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image

LeeDJC
Posts: 322
Joined: 17 Feb 2006, 18:54
Location: Ely, Cambs
My Cars:

Post by LeeDJC » 29 Jun 2006, 08:09

I'm just about to replace both of mine, as they're lookking pretty dodgy. Would a good dose of regular waxoiling from new help would you think? I'm thinking of keeping my xantia for some time yet, so don't want to be replacing them again a few years down the line...probably when they've been discontinued!
0x
2004 Berlingo Multispace HDI, 105000

easterroad
Posts: 29
Joined: 05 Apr 2004, 19:03
Location:
My Cars:

Post by easterroad » 29 Jun 2006, 08:43

Just wondering but did Citroen change the design of the struts at any point to "beef" them up? Are series 2 xantia's any less likely to suffer this or did Citroen just stick their head in the sand and hoped it would go away?
0x

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 29 Jun 2006, 09:49

I guess if we work on the basis that the UK cars fail due to corrosion of the metalwork rather than the rubber deteriorating it would seem a good idea to put some durable hard enamel paint on top of the finish that Citroen use when it comes to renewal with replacement tops.

A regular jet wash of the whole wheel arch area with the car on high may be the only other alternative with originally fitted ones. I wonder if in fact a car being used regularly is going to fare better as the air circulation would help keep the strut top dry rather than allowing the damp to fester!

No, don't think there was a redesign on the Xantia though there was on the Xm.

Andrew
0x

andmcit
Posts: 4309
Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 18:59
Location: Swansea - South Wales
My Cars:

Post by andmcit » 29 Jun 2006, 09:58

AndersDK wrote:But thats certainly no different from other cars not proteceted against rust & environment. The difference is the dramatic consequences on XM & Xantia - as you can see from above you get no warning :roll:


Clearly, this is one area where the Bx fares far better than it's successors. Did they actually get it right back in 1982 but took their eye off the ball subsequently!?

Andrew
0x

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests