xantia 1900 turbo diesel question again

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ukmobileman
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xantia 1900 turbo diesel question again

Postby ukmobileman » Thu Aug 01, 2002 5:19 am

update to t/d knackered head on xantia 1993
then camshaft seized in the middle bearing and snapped the new cam shaft at no. 7 and 8 valves or no. 4 cylinder and shattered the cam cap.(middle)
the car was on tickover out of gear ( i know i was topping up water)it had been runnuing for 5 mins +
i had just had head skimmed / rebuilt by my local machine shop ( a very honest chap who i have used several times before with no problems)
it use to have a carboard 2 notch gasket (not original)
on advice of machine shop i fitted a 3 notch metal laminated gasket which is 0.04mm thicker (to allow for skimming ?)
new bolts, cleaned block threads with correct size tap (i am a fully trained mechanic )of course a new t/belt
used a torque wrench and angle guage
plenty of cam lube, changed oil, filter and even the micro filter in the turbo supply pipe
spun the motor over before i bleed diesel to build oil pressure up
started up first go. oil light out the moment it fired up
no smoke or clatter smooth idle from word go
no warning just went clunk and stopped dead belt still intact
my guess is no oil supply to middle camshaft bearing
andbody want to hazard a guess as to why?
my thinking is as a cam was new it may have been the wrong one ? i doubt it though
oil pump knackerd doubt that either as this car use to cruise at 90 on motorway for 50-60 miles
or the gasket restricted the oil flow? it was a FAI autoparts gasket these i have found to be one of the better gaskets i have used
i'll just put it down to bad luck!!!
does anybody know if the valves break the head of the pistons or if they just mark them (i have not stripped it yet)
as i will just put another head on if i can (s/h after the expense of the last head)
as the want £550 inc vat for a s/h engine at my local to me citroen breaker!!
thanks G J Wright
oh yes does a non turbo head fit or a 405 t/d head fit?
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Jon
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Postby Jon » Thu Aug 01, 2002 9:34 pm

You're not having a lot of luck are you!
I'm trying to work out why the camshaft snapped, usually a problem caused by insufficient lubrication, or of course a problem with the cam carriers.Was it definately the correct cam? Did you fit new matching cam carriers at the same time, were they profiled to the cam?
I'm not sure about oil starvation caused by the head gasket, I assuming the gasket supplied to you locally was correct? Personally I would only ever fit the OE gaskets for this engine which are Meillor (traditional gasket) or Elring (metal sandwich gasket).
You might be lucky and just get away with another complete head, I doubt whether its "done" the piston if it was only ticking over.
As for replacement heads, take your pick from 306, ZX, Xantia, 405 and 406 1.9TD's. Remember that if fitting a head from a ZX, 306,405 etc with a cam driven vaccum pump you check that its possible to blank off the oil feed for the cam driven vaccum pump as obviouly this won't be needed on a Xantia. if its any help, I used a head from a BX 1.9D 88> onto a 1.7TD engine by swopping the cam and carriers and all was fine.
Jon Wood
IT Supervisor
GSF t/as Andyspares
Edited by - Jon on 01 Aug 2002 16:39:09
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sooty
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Postby sooty » Fri Aug 02, 2002 1:53 am

I'm sorry to read about your problems.
But as a trained Mechanic, you know you should always place one gasket on top of the other and check the apertures ie waterways and oilways etc.
Its sounds like oil lub. problem or the cam timing slipped causing the valves to hit the pistons.
As for the valve damage, it could do either, sometimes it buckles the valves, it could crack/break the cam caps or it could bell the pistons and weaken or crack them (have known to buckle the con rod).
Sorry Mate.
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Dave Burns
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Postby Dave Burns » Fri Aug 02, 2002 3:16 am

My money is on crap getting to the bearing via the oilway due to not being cleaned out thouroughly after machining.
Piston crown's are very tough on these engines, a family member dropped a torx bit down the intake on his ZX, though to be fair he didn't know it.
It took two or three week's of motoring for it to get between the valve and seat, the rising piston punched it into the valve seat destroying it and bent the valve to buggery, the piston had very little damage and survived no trouble.
A new valve seat, valve guide and valve plus a pressure test total £170 and I re-built the engine, though it's not run yet it's kept as a spare.
The n/a engine has a slightly higher compression ratio, accounted for in the head I assume, might not be a good idea to mate it with a turbo.
Dave
Dave
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ukmobileman
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Postby ukmobileman » Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:05 am

gasket was checked against old - all matched and it was the steel laminated type.
on closer inspection of camshaft what i thought to be melted cam bearing journal could be imbedded swaff but i can't say 100% it is
anyway i got myself a good s/h 306 td head today so i will let you all know how it goes
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higgy
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Postby higgy » Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:50 am

Why were you replacing the head gasket? Had it overheated? Serious overheating can cause the head to twist therefore the cam journals are not inline, this can cause the camshaft to snap.
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Postby gjb02 » Fri Aug 02, 2002 4:54 am

Yeah, and did you get that head from Hainford Hall in Norfork at about 2 o'clock this afternoon. That all but had my name on it!!! I had to wait another hour till they found one on a 405 TD. Hope everything goes alright for you though, if it was you. You can put a face to a name now.
Gareth
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ukmobileman
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Postby ukmobileman » Fri Aug 02, 2002 10:18 pm

Gareth yes that is me i got it from hainford
sorry mate !
the xantia had never overheated on me just leaked at head block joint under diesel pump and there was excess pressure in expansion tank
heres another question for you all
my mate bought a l reg taxed and tested zx t/diesel yesterday with a knackered engine (rings gone no compression )for £200 which had just had a recon head put on!! (i won't repeat what i called him i would have bought it just for the head! )it runs after a tow start. he being even tighter fisted than me won't fork out the £475 +vat that www.cit-ren.co.uk want for a engine(i watched him go pale when i told him how much it was!!). basically he wants to know if the 1769cc bx turbo diesel will fit if he swapped manifolds mounts etc.As i can get one almost for free!!
we are both ex FORD mechs (the one car maker that more hassle than cits!!)though to ditance ourselves i will add that, he and his wife have a peg 205 diesel and a n/a zx diesel and i now have a peg 309 diesel and had a bx19 diesel before my xantia t/d . as you all have guessed we like diesels!!!! (if you have ever driven a ford diesel - you'll understand)
before anyone asks i have first offer on that zx head as a spare for mine !!!
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