Query on ZX ENGINE swop 1.9 TD

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mg46783
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Query on ZX ENGINE swop 1.9 TD

Post by mg46783 » 02 Sep 2002, 02:22

Hi..
Ive seen a couple of discussions on ZX engine swops - but have 2 questions...
I could do with knowing if I can fit a non-turbo'd engine into my ZX TD - and then fit up the Turbo of the car - if you understand... ie, would it be "too much" for the non turbo'd engine - Therefore - do I have to find an engine that was originally Turbo'd.... ?
Thats the first question -
2nd... Ive realised from these discussions that the fact that the car has an immob. keypad - I am going to have to consider this when getting another engine - I didnt know about this -- therefore question.. What do I need to look out for ? What are the implications of my car having the immob. pad when looking for an engine????
and finally... Anybody have a "suitable" engine for sale ???
and..... any other advice would be most welcome...
Thank you in advance ./..
Edit::: Car is a P reg 1996. 1.9TD
Edited by - mg46783 on 01 Sep 2002 21:44:50
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russellfowden
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Post by russellfowden » 02 Sep 2002, 02:44

According to the Haynes manual for my ZX TD the lump itself has uprated pistons, conrods and so on so I'd imagine it would be real hassle to rebuild a non turbo block to this spec. I know recon turbo units are pretty pricey but that would seem to be your best option. For God's sake don't fit a non-turbo engine, a ZX with one of those is absolutely slothlike...
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Post by russellfowden » 02 Sep 2002, 02:46

P.S. Wait a minute - my TD doesn't have the immobiliser keypad. I thought they didn't get fitted to the diesels?
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mg46783
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Post by mg46783 » 02 Sep 2002, 02:48

Hi.. and Thank YOu - thats the sort of info I was after on the TD side of things....I wasn't sure if the TDs were "uprated" - ie, stronger etc.. so thats answered that... ( pity tho, I had the chance of a relativly cheap one !) .... Thanks thus far...mike ;-)
PS: As for the KEYPAD.. its definatley there !! :-(
Edited by - mg46783 on 01 Sep 2002 21:50:24
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 02 Sep 2002, 03:21

Couple of other differences between 19TD and 19D, the compression ratio is lower for the TD plus the TD also has oil jets from the conrod's to cool the piston's.
As for sourcing another engine you need not worry too much about the immobiliser because you can simply swap the pump from you old engine to the new one, retaining your start code, assuming your injection pump is ok that is.
I think keypad's came along 95/96 though not sure, they were abandoned for the 98 xantia facelift model in favour of a transponder in the ignition key, don't know if the last ZX's went this way.

Anyway Mike whats has happened to your TD engine that requires its removal, not a rod out is it.
Dave
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Post by mg46783 » 02 Sep 2002, 03:27

Hi and Thanks for the info.. Problem with the engine?? Im assumimg its totally goosed... in that it has seriously overheated due to a water pump failure... absolutley NIL compression on all cylinders , so Im assuming things downstairs have melted somewhat.... I cant see it being just a head gasket/head.. due to no comp on all cyl. Mind you - Id accept any direction if anyone has any ideas on this one....
cheers

Anyway Mike whats has happened to your TD engine that requires its removal, not a rod out is it.
Dave

[/quote]
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 02 Sep 2002, 03:37

I'll put my money on timing belt failure, have you had the timing cover off.
Or if the pump failed big time and let the belt ride off, same result.
Dave
Edited by - Dave Burns on 01 Sep 2002 22:54:09
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Post by vanny » 02 Sep 2002, 04:09

Same sort of lines, i have a 1.9D BX, would it be possible to drop in a 1.9TD from a ZX or even a 2.2TD from a Xantia? What sort of implications are there? Its looking like im gonna be swapping the gear box, so should i get a whole new engine?
Im guessing it would need to be re-registered with the DVLA, but looking at there site they only seem concerned if you lower the engine capacity (time to by a 1litre saxo and stick a V8, thus falling into the lower tax band, i know its not possible!). I guess the insurance company would like to know as well <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
What sort of cost would this entail, and would it be worth the effort? Seems the 1.9 already has the power to put most boy racers in there place (when its not on stands of course!)
Any body done something similar?
Vanny
Merseyside, UK
Citroenbx19rd@hotmail.com
http://www.bxproject.co.uk
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Post by RichardW » 02 Sep 2002, 13:28

Vanny,
Your best bet if you want to go turbo would be to get an engine from a BX - the 1.7 and 1.9 are tuned to the same power, but the 1.9 puts out a bit more torque. I think you would need:
Engine + box c/w all the turbo and air inlet piping, and air box
Probably most of the hydraulic pipes around the engine
The exhaust (bigger bore on the TD)
The driveshafts (a bit beefier on the TD)
All the water piping, incl the expansion tank, radiator and twin fans
The front grill and bonnet (the TD version has a shorter bonnet with a duct in it to get air to the intercooler)
The glow plug relay (which is apparently different)
As you will see quite a big job! Your insurance company may actually charge you more for this conversion than they would for an original TD.
Despite outward similarity, the N/A and TD units are completely different animals, and almost no parts are interchangeable.
Richard
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mg46783
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Post by mg46783 » 03 Sep 2002, 03:24

Im sorry mate - youve lost your money ! The belt is fine - the pump had apparently been leaking a long time ( ive just aquired the car with said blown engine ) - he kept literally GALLONS of water in the boot - and basically - really rather stupidly - left it too long between "refills"... hence, one seriously O/heated engine.
I wish there was a simple answer!!! I really do. ;-((
Ive decided totally against fitting a non turbo engine after the fine advice Ive received here - HOWEVER - one other question,.. How does the keypad work on the inj. pump?? I know, obviously it must work along the fuel cutoff solonoid but "HOW"???? Id like to more about it if any one can fill me in.... Thanks !mike
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I'll put my money on timing belt failure, have you had the timing cover off.
Or if the pump failed big time and let the belt ride off, same result.
Dave
Edited by - Dave Burns on 01 Sep 2002 22:54:09
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" size=2 id=quote>
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Post by Dave Burns » 03 Sep 2002, 06:53

Hmmm, I'd like to have a gleg down the pot's on that one, seeing is believing as they say, wouldn't have thought a diesel could melt piston's because of a shortage of water, might believe it of a petrol.
In any case I wouldn't expect it to take out all four cylinder's, if as you say there is no compo in any of them I would still think the valve's were going nowhere, just to put it to bed for sure, is the belt on the move when it cranks, Iv'e seen them lose teeth and stop at the crankshaft pulley, stubborn bugger aren't I<img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
The only time Iv'e seen a melted piston was in a Fiat 124, straight after an oil change, a poorly machined spline which drove the oil pump stripped when the pump suddenly came on load as the fresh oil was sucked in, it also welded the big end shell's to the crankshaft.
The stop solenoid on the imobiliser type pump is the same as those without the imobiliser, the only difference being that it is energised by a power transistor in the security electronics when the correct code is punched in.
You can't hot wire these car's like you can with the older type pump, that's what its all about.
Dave
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Post by mg46783 » 05 Apr 2003, 07:38

Eh up Dave -- I have ONLY just seen your reply to my post...SORRY!
Basically, Ive never done anything with the ZX - but Im determined to get on with it this summer!!! Im not sure - Im wondering whether to just decapitate it and see what I can see.....then again..would I actually SEE anything???? thinking about melted pistons etc.. I'll double check that belt thing.. I know what you mean re , the stripped teeth thing..and it would make sense in that if the water pump has gone big style...the belt could have come off or whatever... Anyway, Ill let you know what I come up with!! Its funny really to me just why theres no comp on any cylinder!!! other than belt it doesnt make much sense does it...
Ok for now then..cheers,
Mike..
I'll mail this to you as well, chances are you wont look at a 7 month old post ! ;)
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Post by jeremy » 05 Apr 2003, 15:33

If your cambelt has failed the valves will have hit the pistons and the likely result seems to be that the camshaft itself smashes, possibly stretching its bearing caps. This is because the valve heads are parallel to the pistons and the impact forces are not taken up by bending the valves or embedding the heads in the pistons.
A broken camshaft would certainly cause some strange results when the engine was turned but I doubt if the engine would spin freely and easily, I would have thought there would have been some pulsing as some cylinders compressed something and others sucked.
Vanny's query about informing DVLC on an engine change reminds me of when I fitted a BMC 2.2 diesel engine in a Land Rover many years ago. the procedure was to notify them of the change was simp-ly to tell them the new serial no (which was illegible on the block) and the fuel. This we duly did and the new registration certificate was duly produced by the computer described it as a combine harvester! Shock hoorror - what have they done to my lovely Land Rover you think! - then you realise that combine harvesters dont need an MOT! - and so my brother would tax it at a post office without producing an MOT certificate!
jeremy
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Post by vanny » 06 Apr 2003, 02:45

Genious, now why didnt i think of that. I generally refer to her as the tank, and i swear the towbar (see avatar) is big enough to pull a tank, so i wonder if i can register it as a tank??
On the DVLC side, thats all they want, the original (or current) V5 form with the changed details. On the insurance side of things the insurers have said there is no change what so ever to the insurance if i drop a 1.9TD lump in, i just have to inform them so it can be added to the cars 'permanant record'. Better still i have now found an engine to swap with only 46000 on the clock. So this summer will see an almost total rebuild of the car probably going the whole hog and installing ABS brakes and various other toys. If i can find the cash i may well totally repipe the car (where there is stil metal), move the accumulator add 16v brakes, add the uprated driveshafts, reseal the underside of the car with LDV undecoat and primer followed by waxoyl (alla DMC DeLorean). Then to add various electronic gizmo's such as speed controlled wipers. Instrument light dimmer that runs on how dark it is (with a sugestion light that its time to switch the lights on as it goes dark. Already added rear electric windows, doors open panel, Plip unit, fade out lights. The next few weeks will see additions of rewired stereo (most of which is already done), digital clock, fogs and a few other bits and bobs.
Does anybody know anything about the mysterious BX computer? Supposedly calculates mileage, but ive never found one. And does the BX Digit actually exist? Im after the instument panel (obviously).
Best thing about all this is that i can carry all the mods over to another BX (assuming i get rear ended :) )
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Post by andyg » 09 Apr 2003, 02:17

Hello Dave,
I can well believe what he is saying with his engine when he says he has no compression after it overheated.
I had the same problem a few years ago which resulted in a complete rebuild.
Basically, i lost all the water from the rad (5 holes!!) on the hottest day in june that year (2000) and the engine seized whilst on the motorway. Result was that the pistons were fine but the rings picked up on the bores and destroyed the bores and piston surfaces.
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