Xantia Turbo Diesel VSX cutting out update

Our most popular forum is for Citroën problems, discussions and chat.
Specialising in AX, BX, ZX, Xantia,C5, Xsara, Saxo and XM. CX, 2cv & Berlingo, all are welcome.NOT for selling cars/parts!

Moderator: RichardW

Harrelsenwj
Posts: 9
Joined: 16 Sep 2002, 22:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Xantia Turbo Diesel VSX cutting out update

Post by Harrelsenwj » 16 Sep 2002, 22:09

When driving downhill, slowing down to change down whilst breaking my car cuts out. It starts again if I ride clutch or failing that it starts immediately when reigniting car. Have replaced fuel shut off valve and fuel injector pipes but it still happens although not all the time. It's costing me heaps in trying to diagnose and find cause and this seems to have most mechanics baffled.
It's a 1994 model and has 130,000 on clock. It had a new engine four years ago.
Wendy
Edited by - Harrelsenwj on 19 Sep 2002 10:05:07
0x

mbunting
Posts: 712
Joined: 21 Dec 2001, 16:19
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by mbunting » 16 Sep 2002, 22:31

Not that I know the answer, but could you give more information such as...
Is the engine hot or cold ?
You say it happens when you change gear - is this actually with the clutch down ?
Up hill, down hill, on the level ?
Does it idle ok ?
What about if you gently rev it in neutral to say 1500 rpm then let the revs drop ?
My first un-educated thoughts are..
- Air in the fuel system ( expect to die mostly going uphill ).
- Cold running idle speed to low.
- Dodgy earth somewhere to fuel cut-off solenoid.
No doubt the resident experts will shout me down in flames <img src=icon_smile_blush.gif border=0 align=middle>
0x

Harrelsenwj
Posts: 9
Joined: 16 Sep 2002, 22:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Harrelsenwj » 16 Sep 2002, 22:45

[It happens when engine is either hot or cold. seems to happen when breaking and changing down. 9 times out of 10 going down hill a few times on level ground. seems to idle well. yes also ok when revving in neutral, does not cut out. strange it doesn't happen every time.]
Wendy
0x

spanners
Posts: 77
Joined: 10 Sep 2002, 03:29
Location:
My Cars:

Post by spanners » 17 Sep 2002, 02:47

could possibly be a weak link in wiring harness, making and breaking on movement of engine if your car does not have immobiliser pad try running a direct live to stop solenoid and roadtest. could also be object blocking pick up in fuel tank on inclines.
0x

Harrelsenwj
Posts: 9
Joined: 16 Sep 2002, 22:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Harrelsenwj » 17 Sep 2002, 17:00

It sounds to me like an inlet manifold problem – possibly a cracked manifold gasket or more likely a collapsing Servo Hose – this is the hose that goes from the manifold to the Brake Servo – if it gets soft and squiggy – it affects the inlet manifold’s performance by cutting off the supply of air.

Get this checked out asap – it shouldn’t cost a lot and will probably cure the fault…. If this doesn’t cure it – it will almost certainly be in this area – so get the person who changes or checks the servo hose to have a look around this area as well.
OK DIY
Edited by - Harrelsenwj on 17 Sep 2002 12:01:33
0x

Jon
x 48

Post by Jon » 17 Sep 2002, 18:12

We are talking about a Xantia here.
Its has neither brake servo, or servo hose! All braking assistance being taken care of by the belt driven hydraulic pump!
This fault sounds like either an excessively low tickover, a problem with the wiring to the keypad immobilser (if fitted), or perhaps air in the fuel system, or blocked diesel filter.
Mr D Burns, if you're out there, you'd probably be the best person to answer this one.
Jon Wood
IT Supervisor
GSF t/as Andyspares
0x

gjb02
Posts: 287
Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:37
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by gjb02 » 17 Sep 2002, 18:24

Yes, and unless I'm mistaken wasn't he answering his own question Harrelsenwj, posted the initial thread!:D] There is no servo assist, the brake pressure is bleed from the high pressure system that serves the hydraulic suspension, with an interesting little progressive valve, if my memory serves me correct. It does sound like a low idle problem, or possibly an unstable idle caused by a compression / timing problem affecting the fuel. Dave Burns WHERE ARE YOU????
Gareth
0x

Dave Burns
Posts: 1916
Joined: 14 May 2001, 05:30
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Dave Burns » 18 Sep 2002, 04:18

Dunno chaps, bit of a strange post this one.
All I can think of is a low idle speed and a dodgy release bearing, Iv'e seen engines stall just by shoving the clutch down because of buggered release bearing's, though never seen it on a car only on heavier tackle.
Wonder if this happens with or without the aircon running, bit like an exhaust brake them aircon compressors, they take that much turning.
Iv'e occasionally had the engine management light flicker coming down hill but never noticed any other affects and it went off as soon as the throttle was touched, I put it down to the potentiometer on the pump throttle lever.
Dave
0x

Harrelsenwj
Posts: 9
Joined: 16 Sep 2002, 22:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Harrelsenwj » 18 Sep 2002, 16:05

Had new breather hose fitted yesterday and so far car seems to be performing well. Haven't driven down any declines yet, however. Old breather hose was split. Will report back if this has solved problem.
Wendy
0x

spanners
Posts: 77
Joined: 10 Sep 2002, 03:29
Location:
My Cars:

Post by spanners » 19 Sep 2002, 04:21

ALWAYS A REGULAR FAULT ON XANTIA DIESEL IS THE FEED AND RETURN PIPES ON BULKHEAD CRACKING AND LETTING IN AIR (USUALLY CAUSES BAD STARTING)
0x

NiSk
Posts: 1422
Joined: 24 Jan 2002, 21:11
Location: Sweden
My Cars:

Post by NiSk » 19 Sep 2002, 13:46

Hi Spanners,
Unfortuanately the same applies to XM diesels! The first thing to do when you start getting fuelling problems is to change the fuel hoses in the engine compartment!
//NiSk
0x

Harrelsenwj
Posts: 9
Joined: 16 Sep 2002, 22:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Harrelsenwj » 19 Sep 2002, 15:04

Breather hose has made no difference. The car sounds and feels better but after 40 minutes motorway driving last night it cut out when I came off the motorway going downhill, breaking and changing down. It also happened on an incline too, so twice yesterday. Come to think of it, this mainly happens when engine is hot. Do you all still agree with D Burns diagnosis? Any idea what this is going to cost to put right. This could go on forever if this is not the cause.
Wendy
0x

RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 7756
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: '07 307 SW 1.6 HDi 110
'08 C4 Grand Picasso 1.6 HDi 110
x 157

Post by RichardW » 19 Sep 2002, 16:37

I've heard this a couple of times recently - a BX and my sister's AX. I think it is to do with the anti-stall speed going out of adjustment, and that maybe caused by the cold start device starting to malfunction. This theory has yet to be confirmed - I didn't hear anything from the BX owner, and my sister's AX is OK as long as she slows to under 40 before she declutches. Try getting the idle speed and anti-stall speed reset, and check that the cold start device is working.
Richard
0x

gjb02
Posts: 287
Joined: 20 Jul 2002, 20:37
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by gjb02 » 19 Sep 2002, 16:50

Wendy, try adjusting the idle, it shouldn't take long, and it may cure your problem. Is the fuel pump the Bosch one? If so there is an idle adjuster on the rear of the pump, it's a little awkward to get to, but it is possible. As you look at the back of the pump you will see a lever attached to a wire.(This is the coldstart idle lever) Either side of the lever there are threaded adjusters held by 10mm locknuts. The righthand one, as you look at them, is the one you need to adjust. You'll need a 10mm socket on a universal joint, a short extension bar, and matching ratchet plus a long flat blade screwdiver to make the adjustment. Crack off the adjuster locknut, start the engine (best to have the engine hot, as the coldstart will be redundant, the wire will be loose.) Get the screwdriver and slowly adjust the screw clockwise. Wait till the engine note increases, and then stop adjusting.*It may only take 20-50 rpm difference to stop the stalling!* You will now have to adjust the left hand adjuster, this you will need to screw out slightly(anti-clockwise). The lever rocks between the two adjusters, they limit the minimum idle and maximum fast idle, if you increase the min idle the max idle won't be that much more than the min idle. And the lever may not move at all when the it is actioned by the cold start switch.(Wire goes tight when engine is cold and pulls the lever to the fast idle stop).Have a go at simulating this by moving the lever while the engine is running, you'll notice an increase in engine speed, but only a small one. The Haynes book of lies will give you the exact figure I think its around 50 - 75 rpm increase from idle to fast idle. **Make sure to tighten the lock nuts, the engine will be running take care. Hope this has helped. I'm sure if I've missed anything, the usual suspects will reply.
Gareth
Edited by - gjb02 on 19 Sep 2002 11:53:04
0x