ZX Diesel Starting Problems

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princeIII
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ZX Diesel Starting Problems

Post by princeIII » 20 Sep 2002, 03:38

Recently Bertha (I do love the 1.9D beast - ed) has had a few problems starting. I've recntly had all 4 glo-plugs changed (few thousand miles), but hasnt made much difference. What could be the most porbably cause of illness?
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spanners
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Post by spanners » 20 Sep 2002, 03:45

always an idea to recheck glow plugs have fitted cheaper versions of beru glow plug and burn out straight away. check diesel piping for any leaks under pressure(pump bellows)always a good one.what mileage has car done.???????
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princeIII
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Post by princeIII » 20 Sep 2002, 03:57

the girl has done 120k! she runs perfectly once she gets started, and theres never a problem starting once shes warm. apart from the start problem, shes running well. in the winter, she wouldnt start, had to get the aa man out, who suggested giving the primer a squeeze or two before starting in cold weather or if she has been sitting for a while wihout use. i have also noticed that she will give out a big puff of smoke when starting...
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spanners
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Post by spanners » 20 Sep 2002, 04:01

the big puff of smoke is just excess fuel going through unburnt. i would realy double chech amp draw on glow plugs or glow plug timer box.
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gjb02
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Post by gjb02 » 20 Sep 2002, 04:32

A common misconseption is that when the Glow plug light on the dash goes out, you can go for a start. Don't, keep quiet in the car for about 20secs after the light has gone out, sometime around the 15sec mark you will hear a relay click in the under bonnet area, this is the heating relay cutting out. Fire the beast up after the relay clicks, you may notice a difference!!
Gareth
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 20 Sep 2002, 06:12

Well Gareth that may be good advice for someone living in sweden in mid winter, but this is the UK and any XUD that wont start from cold when the dash light goes out the first time has got something wrong with it, even our worst winter should hardly affect it.
Iv'e had XUD's for the last fourteen years, 205,XZ,Xantia's with both Bosch and Lucas pumps and yet to have a bad starter.
The big puff of smoke points to a preheat problem.
Dave
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NiSk
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Post by NiSk » 20 Sep 2002, 12:55

There are two very simple checkd you can perform to partly isolate your problem (don't do them both at the same time!)
1) When the glowplug light goes out, turn the ignition off and on and let it glow again. Any improvement? (points to a preheater timimg problem)
2) Before starting, pump up fuel to the injection pump by hand. An improvement indicates an air leak (quite usual in Citroëns crappy fuel hoses).
//NiSk
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princeIII
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Post by princeIII » 23 Sep 2002, 21:26

when 2) is performed, there is a noticeable difference...i shall try 1) when shes cold enough
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davethewheel
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Post by davethewheel » 24 Sep 2002, 03:09

about a year ago i had a problem with my zxtd onstart up would fire up on two cylinders with lots of smoke then run ok ,changed the glow plugs (local discount shop)started better but still not great after approx 1 week the problem got worse ,one of the plugs had the tip burned off,replaced them again using original beru and i have not hade a problem since dave
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gjb02
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Post by gjb02 » 24 Sep 2002, 13:56

Dave Burns, the additional time given to the glowplugs before cranking just makes the difference between an instantaneous start, or a 2-5 revolutions start. I only ever do the 'listen to the relay' first thing in the morning. The car fires up quicker than a petrol would on these occasions. And I'm all for giving the starter/battery as little grief as possible, glow plugs are a darn sight cheaper than afore mentioned.
Nisk, isn't waiting for the light to go off, then switching off, then reheating again, the same as simply leaving the heater relay to do its job properly the first time? The relay heats for approx 30secs the light goes out after about 15secs give or take a second or two. Why turn off and heat again? Let the relay do the switching for you.
Gareth
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 25 Sep 2002, 01:05

Gareth, I'm also talking instant effortless starting, 2 or 3 compression strokes only (not revolutions) as the light goes out first time, never had it any other way, wont have it any other way, if any of my XUD engines didn't start that easey from cold I would be wanting to know why and would soon sort it.
Dave
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gjb02
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Post by gjb02 » 25 Sep 2002, 04:12

Right you are Dave, obviously terminology is our biggest enemy, you say Tomatoe, I say Tomatoe. Revolutions / Compression strokes, is engine speed measured in compression strokes!!! Then revolutions of the crank it is then. And although audible, the turning of the starter can not always depict the number of revolutions the engine has undertaken before finally bursting into life. 2-5 was a guesstimate, it wasn't meant literally. I also meant no offence in bringing the subject up.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle> If only politicians took things so seriously!
Gareth
Edited by - gjb02 on 24 Sep 2002 23:13:44
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 26 Sep 2002, 09:28

Hi Gareth, easey to hear and count copmo strokes so is best way to describe in my view thats all.
No offence taken, and none meant on my part<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Dave
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sooty
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Post by sooty » 28 Sep 2002, 00:58

I had a problem like your's once with a F!"£ Escort. I had a set from H******'s, which was thier own brand, and I had to wait double the normal time in order to start on cold mornings (ie:- wait approx. 15/20secs after the light had gone out). I gave up on this and purchased some 'NGK' rapid heat type. Never another problem although she had done 180,000 miles and she would start as soon as the light had gone out, if not before.
Get your plugs checked to be sure they are the correct ones fitted.
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mg46783
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Post by mg46783 » 28 Sep 2002, 05:34

Prince- If you are stuck with a non starter you could always take a lead (of suitable density - ie; a jump lead ) from the red/positive on the battery and hold the other end on one of the glow plugs for about the period the glow light normally lights - if there is a problem with the relay or the timer - the engine should start after youve done that -- just be careful 1, not to over do it - and 2, not to spark the thing everywhere causing perhaps irrepairable alternator damage....and making you jump a few feet!Good Luck...
ps; it is started/sorted yet????
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