ZX Rattling power steering pump?

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Tel
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ZX Rattling power steering pump?

Post by Tel » 14 Jun 2001, 03:25

Hi all,
I have a ZX Aura T.D. I have an annoying rattling noise /clattering noise coming from the power steering pump area. At first I thought the drive belt must have been slipping so I checked the tension and found it to be ok. I decided to replace the belt to see if that was the cause (the old belt was in good condition) the new belt done the trick, the noise had gone! Two weeks later the noise was back exactly the same as before. I removed the belt and started the car without the belt and the noise was gone. Armed with this info I decided to replace the power steering pump. After the pump was replaced the same belt was fitted; once again the noise disappeared for approx. 2 weeks. I removed the belt to inspect it once more and found it to be ok, upon re-fitting I applied talcum powder to the belt, this again cured the noise for approx. 2 weeks.
I have inspected all the pulley wheels and these are all clean and free of rust etc. One more thing, after a run of approx. 20 miles the noise usually disappears.
Any suggestions, advice greatly appreciated.
Tel.
Edited by - Tel on 13 Jun 2001 22:28:29
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Jon
x 48

Post by Jon » 14 Jun 2001, 18:16

Tel, if you have replaced both the belt and the pump, then the only thing that can be causing this is the belt roller tensioner. They send to get noisy as they get older. I have replaced this part on my last 2 ZX's.
Jon Wood
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Tel
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Location: United Kingdom
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Post by Tel » 14 Jun 2001, 22:06

Jon, Thanks for the reply.
Sorry I forgot to mention the roller tensioner (dohh) that to has been replaced.
Sorry, Tel.
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Jon
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Post by Jon » 15 Jun 2001, 15:47

um, er, if thats the case, thats weird.
Is the alternator on its way out maybe?
Jon Wood
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 15 Jun 2001, 23:58

Hi Tel
I am running a ZX TD at the moment to save my Xantia from getting covered in dust at work, this has a sort of creeky rattle at tickover but not at faster engine speed's, it's been going on for about two years now and is annoying but not enough for me to go looking for it since it's just used for going to work in, more annoying is the oil that it spews out from the crankshaft front oil seal, but it's not getting on to the timing belt so i'm not in a hurry to fix that either, I'm going to stuff a towbar on it this weekend so I will have a look if I can spot anything, If I do I will let you know.
Dave
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Tel
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Post by Tel » 25 Jun 2001, 03:40

Sorry 4 the delay in the reply but have been away for a while.
Jon, don’t think it’s the alternator as when you spin it feels smooth as silk, also no play on it what so ever, the noise is coming from lower down, it seems from the PS pump.
Dave did U manage to get time to have a look at your car? Have U discovered what the noise is yet?
Have had a good listen and spent some time thinking about this problem.
I have reached the following conclusions.
There are 2 different noises a slight squeaking noise & a rattling / clattering noise. The latter is definitely coming from the PS pump. Could it be the by-pass valve making this noise? (I have noticed the same noise on quite a few Citroen/ Peugeot vehicles) As soon as the engine warms up the noise seems to go off, could this be down to the fact that the PS fluid is also warm and some how the by-pass valve isn’t clattering as much? The squeaking noise from the belt also seems to go off when the engine has warmed up, could this be because when the PS fluid is cold the pump is putting up resistance and no matter how tight the belt is it could be slightly slipping. The talcum powder stops the noise for a while as it is lubricating the belt (whilst slipping) but as soon as it wears off the noise reappears.
I don’t know if the PS fluid has ever been changed, as I can’t find any mention of this in the S.H. I wonder if this would make any difference?
Any views / advice greatly appreciated. Tel.
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Dave Burns
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Post by Dave Burns » 26 Jun 2001, 03:04

Hello Tel
Wish I could say I had it sussed but the cause still eludes me, on your point about the by-pass or pressure relief valve, this will only open at extremes of pressure, i.e when the steering wheel is still being forced by the driver at full lock, in this situation you will hear a hissing noise as the oil is forced through the relief valve, at all other times this valve will remain closed. When one of these drive belts slip due to not being tight enough they invariably squeel and there really isn't any middle ground here, they are either tight enough and do their job or they slip at peak load's like heavy current demand's of the alternator and/or power steering and squeel like a stuck pig. I think that the only difference changing the power steering fluid will make will be to your pocket, I would change it only if it has become contaminated or were changing the pump.
Your problem might be worn pulley's, since you say the noise is silenced by putting talcum powder on the belt, fitting a new belt to a worn pulley could cause a slight missmatch in the profile between pulley and belt causing the noise as the rubber is forced into and then pulled out of ill fitting vee groove's, when the engine get's hot so do the pulleys, passing the heat to the belt and softening the rubber, causing the noise to stop maybee. The noise I have on my ZX actually sound's like something loose and vibrating aswell as the belt creek type noise, though i'm buggered if I can find it, if I come across any further developement's I will be in touch.
Regards Dave
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Tel
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Post by Tel » 27 Jun 2001, 17:36

Dave, thanks for the info,guess I was straw grasping,I'm at that stage now. Think you are right about the ill fitting belt into the pulley grooves. From now on just going to turn up the radio and forget it, before I loose my sanity! Don't know what your noise could be, Would advise you to apply the radio trick also,at least until such times as something falls off or the car stops! Same applies will post back if I find solution. Cheers M8 Tel.
Edited by - Tel on 27 Jun 2001 12:37:55
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mazidee
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Post by mazidee » 21 Sep 2001, 16:50

Guys,
Like to read both of your comment. My ZX 1.8 Estate face the same problem after my PS pulley came out and almost burn my engine. I have not choice but to cut the belt as I do not have a good tools to remove the tensioner. I have fitted the PS pump with a second hand unit and also the belt with the new oil. However after one month I still have simillar problem of what you guys face. Very irritating and I feel ashamed to start my cold engine infront of people I know. I sort of suspect it is because of the PS is not a good one but after I spra WD40 at the alternator pulley, the sound seems to dissapear for a while then it comes back. My new belt also whow sign of worn out on the side. Should you guys have any clue, pls. help me.
mazidee@time.net.my
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Dave1
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Post by Dave1 » 24 Sep 2001, 02:13

Hi Tel,
I have exactly the same on my TD Volcane. However the noise only appeard after I had the belt changed. Like you I tried talc and the noise stops instantly. I decided the belt must be slipping so tightned it a turn and the noise stopped. It has slowly appeared again but always on damp or colder mornings, especially when I turn the wheel. I can only assume the belt has now streched a little and needs an extra turn. It is not that bad yet so I may leave it rather than put extra pressure on the bearings.
At least you will not feel alone!
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Jon
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Post by Jon » 24 Sep 2001, 21:03

Forgot to add something on this subject.
On my previous ZX TD, the PAS pump was really noisy, I could not see anything wrong... One day I was driving down the M4, there was a big bang, and the alternator light came on, and I lost the power steering.
Upon investigation on the hard shoulder, the pulley and shaft from the pump had completely sheared off, and disappeared somewhere on the M4.
Morel of story. Do not overtighten adjuster!
<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Jon Wood
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vonnig
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Post by vonnig » 24 Sep 2001, 21:07

i don't have any rattling here.. but i do notice that my belt tends to slip occasionally and thus producing that high pitched shriek which many ppl dread to hear... but it only does that on really cold mornings esp. after rain... usually just rev a bit and it disappears... tried tightening the belt but has no effect... still does that ocassionally... this only happened after i change the belting for the air-cond compressor and the alternator.
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