Oil treatments

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Robbie
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Oil treatments

Postby Robbie » Tue Mar 12, 2002 1:59 pm

Does anyone know if oil treaments like Slick 50 make any differance, I mean do they actually quieten an engine down or do they make no differance at all, they seem very expensive to do nothing.
My Xantia 1.9TD seems a touch noisy and wondered about putting some in.
Robbie.
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Dave Burns
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Postby Dave Burns » Wed Mar 13, 2002 1:09 am

There is nothing available at the present time that's better than regular oil and filter changes using good quality oil and filters.
Most of the concoctions on the shelf contain PTFE (Teflon), this is a solid in suspension, your oil filter is designed to remove such solids, the result of using it can be a clogged filter causing oil starvation, leading to engine damage that the garbage was supposed to prevent, furthermore you will be instructed to shake the bottle, why, because the garbage settles at the bottom of the container.
Where is it going to settle in your engine, even if it did do any good it wouldn't, sat at the bottom of the sump.
http://www.ftc.gov/search
The above link is to the U.S Federal Trade Commission, gleaned via the BX d-i-y site.
Type in "oil additives".
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/index.html
Regards Dave
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neilminto
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Postby neilminto » Wed Mar 13, 2002 2:35 am

http://www.fernblatt.com/longhurst/engineoil_bible.html This will put you off additives for ever.
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alan s
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Postby alan s » Wed Mar 13, 2002 3:18 am

I wouldn't touch engine oil additives with a barge pole after personal experiences a few years ago where I had a CX motor suddenly start burning oil after taking it to a "mechanic" to have a general servicing done & was given all these fancy "facts" which supposedly were done by an engineering firm.
At the same time, based on the same advice, I put the same stuff into a light industrial machine (almost brand new) whereupon it proceeded to lose compression & start burning oil. Others I have spoken to had similar results.
However, I have heard from quite a few people that gearbox additives are a different story. It has been claimed by a lot of Pug/Cit owners in Australia that some of these (Slick 50, Nulon, Redline) actually quieten gearboxes and improve the gearchanging within minutes of being put in.
Has anyone here had experiences like this with the gearbox stuff?
Alan S
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Robbie
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Postby Robbie » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:08 am

I think I'll forget the idea.
Robbie.
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David.Cox
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Postby David.Cox » Wed Mar 13, 2002 4:55 am

Definitely improved shifting on a 2cv gearbox and that was slick 50. I also swear by it on engines, I am afraid. However, I accept Dave Burns advice that nothing is better than good oil changes and filters. But apart from that I have also used flushing agents for many years and fully believe they are good to use.
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alan s
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Postby alan s » Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:17 am

[quote] "I have also used flushing agents for many years and fully believe they are good to use."
David,
I think therein lies the story. A lot of these additives seem to have very strong flushing properties in them which causes carbon to be flushed out from behind rings and valve stems etc. A clean engine, particularly one that has had flushing oil used on it shouldn't have this carbon/sludge build up to start with so anything doing this isn't going to cause any problems as it would a motor which has never been subjected to this treatment. Unfortunately this theory went out the window to a degree when my new industrial engine fell in a heap & I was told by the manufacturers that I had been using some kind of additive to the oil which had broken down causing the excessive wear and damage. Perhaps the operating temps were too high for the additive involved which if this is the case, how many are playing "Russian Roulette" with expensive engines?
Alan S
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hardmanm
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Postby hardmanm » Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:14 pm

I had great results with a CX with a stiff gearchange, Molyslip gearbox additive worked wonders and the gearchange remained fine for at least 3 or 4 years before I sold the car.
However I just tried the same job on my Xantia with very little effect. Has anyone any advice on improving Xantia gearchange?
I agree that nothing is better than regular oil & filter changes. The problem is that as multigrade oil ages the additives that hold soot in solution become exhausted and soot and sludge start getting deposited in the engine. Flushing agents are therefore only really necessary if you keep the oil in too long.
I can't recommend semi-synthetic or (better still) fully sythetic oil. The 2.0L engine in my CX lasted 200K miles on fully synthetic.
Mark
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hardmanm
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Postby hardmanm » Wed Mar 13, 2002 5:15 pm

Whoops, meant to say "can't recommend too highly"
I had great results with a CX with a stiff gearchange, Molyslip gearbox additive worked wonders and the gearchange remained fine for at least 3 or 4 years before I sold the car.
However I just tried the same job on my Xantia with very little effect. Has anyone any advice on improving Xantia gearchange?
I agree that nothing is better than regular oil & filter changes. The problem is that as multigrade oil ages the additives that hold soot in solution become exhausted and soot and sludge start getting deposited in the engine. Flushing agents are therefore only really necessary if you keep the oil in too long.
I can't recommend semi-synthetic or (better still) fully sythetic oil. The 2.0L engine in my CX lasted 200K miles on fully synthetic.
Mark

[/quote]
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Dave Burns
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Postby Dave Burns » Thu Mar 14, 2002 12:07 am

I once put Castrol Magnatec in my previous n/a diesel Xantia, it loved it, burnt it like it was going out of fashion, had to top up between changes and that is unheard of with these engines for me, needless to say I soon forgot about synthetics at £20 a gallon.
Dave
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alan s
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Postby alan s » Thu Mar 14, 2002 8:56 am

Dave,
Out here we pay around A$40 - $50 for 5 litres of Mobil One. Magnatec is around $25 for the same amount.
I have heard a few reports on Castrol Magnatec & get the impression the thing it seems to have the strongest magnetic attraction for is the cash in your wallet <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> I can't speak for Jap engines but it certainly doesn't seem to agree with PSA stuff. Another guy claimed his tappets rattled in his BX 16V after he changed to it as well as oil consumption (hydraulic tappets).
As regards oil consumption I feel this is more a case of oil grading rather than type in most cases & low SAE ratings (5W-40) will tend to burn & leak its way through a motor brought up on 20W-50.
I think this gets back to the original posting though; Magnatec is basically a standard oil full of fancy additives & in the words of Perry Mason "and on that basis m'lud - I rest my case." <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S
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Jon
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Postby Jon » Thu Mar 14, 2002 3:50 pm

Thanks Alan, I'd agree with that!
PS, any chance of getting some Aussie Frogs stickers over here so that we can spread the gospel? <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
Jon Wood
IT Supervisor
GSF t/as Andyspares
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hardmanm
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Postby hardmanm » Thu Mar 14, 2002 6:17 pm

The secret is in the numbers, the second number is the hot viscosity which really shouldn't be below 50 on an older engine, the first one is cold which should be as low as possible
By CX used to love valvoline 5w/50 fully synthetic, the much lower number when cold gave really good cold starting and running, reduced fuel consumption, and I sold the car at 200K with the 2.0L Renault engine burning 1 pint of oil avery 3000 miles!
The added advantage of fully synthetic is that it does not go out of grade like multigrades. Multigrade oils contain viscosity modifiers which degrade steadily as the oil ages, reducing the viscosity. I used to leave fully-synthetic in for 10,000 miles with no trouble at all (well have you tried to reach the oil filter on an OHC CX?)
Magnatec is a different kettle of fish, it is ordinary multigrade with some stuff added, probably not worth the money.
Mark
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Dave Burns
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Postby Dave Burns » Fri Mar 15, 2002 1:55 am

Hi fellas, with all the advertising hype and I suppose cost of the stuff compared to other motor oil, I assumed Magnatec was a synthetic.
Don't know if I should fork out and give Mobil 1 TD a blast, thing is how long to leave it in, too expensive to cob after only 5000 miles, I know it's got a longer life than ordinary multigrade stuff, but how long.
Have seen a change of oil brand cause a perfect Perkins diesel in a MF65 tractor go from being a first touch starter to having to be towed inside a year.
I wouldn't have believed it had I not witnessed it.
After 80,000 odd miles on Valvoline TD, I'm a bit reluctant to change brand knowing what can happen.
Dave
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neilminto
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Postby neilminto » Fri Mar 15, 2002 2:49 am

Magnatec is a semi-synthetic - ie based on synthetic esters, which is the only 'real' semi-synth as opposed to ones which are mineral-based and 'fortified'. Its also used by most vauxhall and many PSA dealers 'oop north' - seems fine in Hdi. Castrol have ben doing oils a while and now BP forecourts only sell Castrol oils - their website is worth a look.
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