Sphere refill, Xantia

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Morten
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Sphere refill, Xantia

Post by Morten » 30 Apr 2002, 04:29

Is there anybody who has refilled spheres with
VALPREX C720 EQUIPMENT ? I've looked at the http://www.bx.citroen.org/t03/t03e.html. They have a nipple at the top, I don't. So how is it done ? Any other equipment I can use ?
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Post by JohnD » 30 Apr 2002, 17:33

Hi Morten - I used to have my spheres re-charged. When I got rid of my BX estate after eleven years, it still had the original spheres fitted with a lovely ride. When they were first charged, a valve was fitted and the total cost was around £15 per sphere. Later re-charges, every three years, cost peanuts. Suddenly the cost of regassing was increased to the same price as a new sphere from Andyspares. That was when I stopped having them done.
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alan s
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Post by alan s » 01 May 2002, 03:04

Morten,
Speaking from the other side of the World, I don't know what regulations govern you over there as regards accessing nitrogen and who can handle it.
Over here in Oz it is used by air/con mechanics to dehydrate systems and pressure test prior to commissioning as well as trucking companies to inflate tyres as its pressure does not increase with temperature (which is one of the reasons they use it in spheres.)
As John says, regassing spheres is a full on rip off worldwide. I was quoted by someone a while ago A$90 per sphere to regas. By the same token, I know someone who was quoted A$275 for an accumulator sphere - Andyspares price I think is UKP18.50 so you can almost buy a full set of spheres for a BX for the price of an accumulator sphere out here <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
Once you own the regassing gear, the cost of recharging is really quite small & simple.
A bottle of nitro out here is around A$50 - that would almost recharge every sphere in Australia (I am serious) so it doesn't take long to recoup your outlay. Spheres only successfully regas if done prior to going too flat; about half down is ideal.
One of the Cit Car Clubs have their own regassing gear out here & have a "Technical day" a couple a times a year where owners can take their cars (or spheres) along & have them done for a nominal fee. This small charge helps to give the club funds to operate. I have suggested this in the past over there but it never seems to eventuate, however I would suggest that if you have any friends who also own Cits that you could buy a kit either solely or between you and share costs whenever you hire a bottle of gas, say once a year. It's about as hard as pumping up a tyre.
The pressure they are required to be blown to is normally stamped near the filling cap on the top as you are possibly aware.
Alan S
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Morten
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Post by Morten » 02 May 2002, 19:23

Hi again, I ordered 2 front spheres from Andyspares at the total cost £36 ex VAT (I live in Norway) and shipping was £49..! Included tax in Norway, it will cost me more than buying it here. So I have to cancel the order and find another solution.
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alan s
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Post by alan s » 03 May 2002, 02:52

Cheers Morten,
I know all about freight costs living where I do is almost akin to another planet. Spheres are almost impossible to carry as personal luggage these days also (you can imagine the panic at the airport if a couple of these showed up on a luggage scanner <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle> ) Pity the old surface mail still wasn't in vogue although I have found that there are International Courier Servicxes which are probably a better option.
Forgetting that problem, I think you'll find that Andyspares occasionally get hold of these rechargers. They are't as dramatic a thing to use as is shown on the site you refer to, in fact as I said, they are extremely simple. The only thing you have to remember is that you are dealing with high pressures so just be cautious when using them. This is another site that shows a bit about them.
http://www.cpr.ch/Pages/citroen_e.html
Sphere recharging is common out here with many owners never buyibg new spheres so they can work out quite economical, but as I said before, try to make it a group thing & share the cost. Also check out the International Courier scene in case this doesn't eventuate.
Alan S
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Morten
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Post by Morten » 03 May 2002, 03:40

Alan,
thanks for the input. I think I will order equipment for refilling the spheres myself. My car is a 94 and I owned it from 97. Since 97 I've refitted 3 complete set of spheres (6 spheres)and if the Citroen garage does the job, it costs me ca £400-500, so I cant go on like this. Recharging at Citroen are £200-250 for 4 spheres inc testing and mounting. So buying a recharger kit on my own, will give me a short payback time. :-)
Now, the only thing I need is a table which shows me what pressure the different spheres need. Any ideas where I can find that ?
Morten
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alan s
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Post by alan s » 03 May 2002, 07:58

Morten,
Scroll down the page on the attached link & you'll find all the spheres specs. In any case, look carefully at the top of your spheres near where the charging valve will screw in & there should be a figure stamped in there indicating the pressure for each particular sphere. Look for something like "55 bar" When you pull the spheres off, on the bottom of the sphere, on the silver base, there will be another dimension which will be a figure like "1.4" which is the bore size. Your spheres will have three critical dimensions to be the ones suitable for your car: #1 Is the volume 400 or 500cc - most are 500 #2 The pressure they have to be charged at (as per the above example - 55 bar) #3 The bore size. (As in the 1.4 example) Should any of these spheres need replacing, they are the figures that have to match. If sometime in the future they become unavailable, then replace and recharge as close to those figures as is practical to maintain an even "balance" in the suspension.
For your knowledge, Andyspares had some charging outfits in stock a little while ago at a fairly competitive price.
http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/sus ... spens.html
If you have any problems sorting things out, drop me a line & I'll try to help you out on it. Just remember it may take a day for me to get back as my Friday night is your Friday morning <img src=icon_smile_sleepy.gif border=0 align=middle>
Alan S
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Morten
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Post by Morten » 09 May 2002, 00:38

Alan,
thanks for you help !
I've started to look at the Swiss made (CPR)refill kit. The Swiss kit(CPR) is EUR 380 which is fair enough. Then you have to buy 50 safety valves at the price of EUR 520.... I'll check out the French kit... Finding Nitrogen bottles was easy. But is industrial pureness good enough ? The gas reseller said it is good enough. Any comments ? The bottle was a handy 5KG (ca 10lbs) which I can buy for a fair price instead of renting it. Refill of gas is about EUR 20. If there is anybody out there who uses the different makes of refill kit, please let me know what you think of it.
Morten
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alan s
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Post by alan s » 09 May 2002, 03:19

"is industrial pureness good enough ? "
Yes.
Pity we couldn't buy bottles out here. CIG (ICI) have a monopoly so anything they say goes. Out here, a large bottle (About 4 ft high) costs around $50 which is about 18 UKP from memory. Just ask when you geyt some if it is suitable to be used in refrigeration systems. If it is it would be OK as that standard is fully dehydrated due to refrigeration being so sensitive to moisture & this stuff being used to purge & flush systems prior to commissioning.
Alan S
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alan s
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Joined: 26 Jan 2001, 16:53
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Post by alan s » 16 Jul 2002, 05:09

This is the thread that Morten referrs to in his posting regarding spheres recharging.
Just thought I'd bring it up so those interested could refer to the history of the subject.
Without trying to sound too mercenary, for the benefit of UK users (as well as others) Andyspares can supply recharging equipment, similar if not the same brand, at times when available.
Alan S
Edited by - alans on 16 Jul 2002 00:13:14
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