Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

This unit is the NG4 system, made by Harman Becker.
Main Features: DVD, Voice Commands, HighRes Display, 3D Mapping, Bluetooth Hands Free, Independent Phone with MDS Module, SD Card, USB, Jukebox.

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Yoshimura
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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by Yoshimura » 05 Nov 2019, 13:23

Hi Marc

Just notised something else with the unit. There is no back light at the front panel. The LEDs behind the buttons does not work at all.
Could be related to the problem I think.

BR

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GiveMeABreak
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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Nov 2019, 13:54

Sounds like the unit has a fault internally then.

One thing to check and again, make sure you disconnect the connectors and reconnect in the right order - always remove Quadlock connector first, before the multifunction screen connector and connect in reverse order when reconnecting:

The NG4 is constantly powered so is never really switched off. Try the following first:

Check that the Shunt Fuse is (in the BSI) in the Customer position and not in Park mode.

Unit Power Down
Switch off the ignition: Switch off all power consuming equipment to allow the networks to switch to standby
Get out of the vehicle: Check that all the openings are closed correctly (Do not lock the doors)
Wait 3 minutes
Disconnect the battery
Disconnect the telematic unit 40-way connector
Disconnect the multifunction screen
Disconnect the telematic unit aerials
Disconnect the 18-way connectors, then the 12-way connectors, then the GSM aerial connector of the service module
Reconnect the battery

Unit Reconnection / Power Up
Switch off the ignition: Switch off all power consuming equipment to allow the networks to switch to standby
Get out of the vehicle: Check that all the openings are closed correctly (Do not lock the doors)
Wait 3 minutes
Disconnect the battery
Connect the GSM aerial connector, then the 12-way connectors, then the 18-way connectors of the service module
Connect the telematic unit aerials
Reconnect the connectors of the multifunction screen
Connect the telematic unit 40-way connector
Reconnect the battery

If this has not fixed the unit, then lastly try a reset (you will loose all telephone entries, settings, paired telephones and likely jukebox files though....

Hold down buttons 1, 3 & 5 together until you hear a 'Beep'
Release the buttons after you hear the Beep
Allow the unit to restart.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by rijndael » 29 Nov 2019, 19:10

Dear "GiveMeABreak",
Could you send me a copy of your HD?
Thank you and best regards.
J.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 29 Nov 2019, 20:37

It wouldn't be practical wouldn't do you any good to be honest - all you need to do is format the hard drive and reinsert it into the NG4, then boot with the latest firmware N42C in the USB and it will recreate the partitions on the hard drive for you.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by MacSlavko » 05 Dec 2019, 17:56

Hi GiveMeABreak,

How do I format the new HD for NG4? My old one seems to be dead and the new one is in. But when I try to format it with firmware N42C (on USB or on CD) nothing happenes... CD spinns for a certain time, then shows Error and won't eject. The same firmware on USB key doesn't even get recognized by the system...

Thanks!

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Dec 2019, 19:28

Best to update from USB - after you remove the CD. The DVD drive takes priority over the USB, so it you have a CD in there it will keep trying to read that before the USB.

Can you put a screen shot of the USB content here for me to see which files you have so I can check they are ok.

Next format the USB as FAT32, and try another USB - sometimes certain brands may not work - use USB 2.0.

As for the Hard Disk - can you tell me what the specifications are (Make & model would be good, plus the interface, size and spin speed, plus whether it is IDE, SATA SSD, PATA as this makes a difference.

The hard drive must be formatted as FAT32 - but don't use a MAC to do it.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by MacSlavko » 05 Dec 2019, 20:14

It is for my friends RCZ who asked for help...
Here is the ScreenShot of the Firmware content that I used.
It goes on the root of a FAT 32 formatted USB2 key. All done on a Win7 PC.
The HDD is automotive Toshiba HDD (30 or 40 GB). I'll share the photo as soon as I get it. But now I think the problem is that HDD wasn't FAT 32 formatted prior to installing into the NG4?
Attachments
Capture NG 42C.JPG

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 05 Dec 2019, 20:36

Ok, thanks for that explanation :-D

1) So the files look correct - no other files and the order is correct.
2) I notice that from the screenshot that looks like a Macbook from the directory listing - even with Bootcamp these can put hidden files on the NG4 Hard Drive & USB that will cause problems. I suggest you show all hidden and system files and make sure there is nothing other than those files for the firmware as shown for the USB. Same goes for the Hard Drive.
3) Once you are sure all the files are correct and the CD is ejected, you need to follow the battery disconnect on your friends Peugeot using this guide (up to the battery disconnect part). Once the battery has been disconnected remove the NG4 and install the hard drive. Put the USB in the car's USB port.

Please note always remove the quad lock from the back of the NG4 first before any other connectors - especially the screen connector - and then replae in reverse order.

BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure

Once you have everything hooked up, follow the battery re-connection part of the procedure. This will initialise the BSI and the NG4 will be booted from complete shut down. Make sure the USB is in already as it will try and look for the firmware files. Leave the car running so the car does not go into economy mode. - If it is interrupted it will interfere with the formatting and OS installation.

Bear in mind this process can take over an hour! Let us know how you get on.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by rijndael » 14 Dec 2019, 11:58

Hi again, Gurus,
What's the best HD I should buy to replace the Toshiba original one?
Thanks in avance!

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Dec 2019, 12:16

It’s not a matter of ‘best’ in this case, it’s a matter of getting a compatible one.....

Read my article in the first post which explains the interface needed. You need an IDE PATA drive of automotive grade. Don’t bother with SATA (or Solid State Drives) or they will slow down and ground to a halt very quickly.

You don’t have to get a 40Gb drive, it can be higher capacity, but you will not be able to use the additional space as the firmware will partition the drives to set sizes.

They were difficult to get years ago when I wrote the article, most available were second hand used as they are not consumer grade drives but are specialist units.

That’s one of the reasons why I did the conversion to CF card instead and have my original HDD preserved.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by rijndael » 14 Dec 2019, 12:29

Ok, thank you.
By "the best" I meant the best compatible HD, of course.
Then, if I choose the CF card option and I follow your instructions, the unit with the usb plug in (with the proper firmware) will recognice the CF card as if it were an HD, right?

Thank you!

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 14 Dec 2019, 12:40

Yes, because CF cards use the IDE command set (again read the article to make sure you get the right standard). ATA-6 | UDMA/100 | Ultra DMA/100 are ok. Later Ultra ATA 7 cards and above will have issues, as they have features of the SATA standard and are not compatible with the QNX operating system used on the NG4 like TRIM and also exceed the speed of the original interface.

Make sure you follow the BSI Reset / Battery Disconnect / Reconnect Procedure first, as the NG4 stays powered on after the ignition is switched off.

Follow the procedure again to reconnect the batter when you have finished the upgrade. Make sure you disconnect / reconnect the connectors at the back of the NG4 in the correct order (remove Quad lock first, then the other connections and the screen last, then later, reconnect in reverse order).

Make sure you have the firmware USB inserted in the USB drive when you reconnect the unit and power up the car so it can boot off the firmware.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by niksus » 12 Jan 2020, 21:39

Hi GiveMeABreak, thank you for this exceptional guide!
I didn't get why do you recommend not using SSD. Where are the "intense delete/ re-write cycles" coming from?
If you don't use Jukebox at all, there should be none.

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Re: Guide to Replacing the NG4 Navidrive 3D Hard Drive with a CF Card

Post by GiveMeABreak » 12 Jan 2020, 23:27

Because of the reasons I stated in my guide - SSDs use the SATA standard, the NG4 uses IDE (PATA). At the pure hardware level PATA is completely incompatible with SATA without an adapter - with PCs and windows for example you can use a software driver to interface between the 2, but you don't have this facility with the automotive system. So a bit of a waste using an SSD when a CF card that natively uses IDE will perform way better.

The NG4 operating system used does not support SATA standards and additional commands including the TRIM function. There is no benefit in SSD as the speeds will be limited to the speed of the IDE. Also, there are issues with UDMA 7 CF cards as this is where SATA kicks in and many have reported issues with bottlenecking, and the system slowing down after a while to a crawl.

It's not just the Jukebox function with writing and storing MP3 to the hard drive partition that is the issue - it is the other partitions that are used for the operating system files and also where the navigation journeys are calculated and stored / stop-overs and journey history. Then there are the addresses and telephony data, saved locations. Then there is the voice command tutorial / training data that is stored once you have trained it to better recognise your voice, then data used to interface with the car systems etc. etc.

I'm still using mine without issue since I installed it.